#1   AstralProjectee 

Member

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:7
Joined:17-June 11
Gender:Male
Location:Chicago
Interests:Taoism, Entheogens
Posted 06 July 2011 - 09:41 PM
Can the taosit or meditation faiths heal you? Like faith healing with some meditation. I'm not talking about healing as in herbs and medicine. I'm talking about faith healing. Asking Wu Chi, Jesus or who ever is in the higher power to heal me. As I understand you have to believe in your heart. People are actually doing this in Matrix Energetics.

I know Jesus can heal BTW.

Do the Taoist recognize this kind of healing.
Thanks.
0
MultiQuote
Reply
#2   AstralProjectee 

Member

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:7
Joined:17-June 11
Gender:Male
Location:Chicago
Interests:Taoism, Entheogens
Posted 06 July 2011 - 09:43 PM
I am not reffering to Qigong. I know Qigong can heal you.
0
MultiQuote
Reply
#3   Marblehead 

Eternally Non-eternal

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:9,141
Joined:07-July 09
Gender:Male
Location:Florida, USA
Interests:Short Skirts and Bikinis
Posted 07 July 2011 - 02:19 AM
Hehehe. I don't know about healing qualities but the philosophy will help one deal with the reality of reality.

(If you have a broken leg it will remain broken until it is healed. And then what you will have is a healed broken leg.)
Peace & Contentment!
0
MultiQuote
Reply
#4   orb 

Tao Bum!

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:426
Joined:18-April 08
Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:32 AM
AstralProjectee, on 06 July 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:
I am not reffering to Qigong. I know Qigong can heal you.



Any strong faith can heal you. You can call it Taoism, Jesus, Steve or Joe Pesci. It's about strengthening your mind and spirit. If you concentrate on one thing for a long time (I mean years) your mind will become stronger - that doesn't mean that you will know how to use it in the right way though...you still have to learn qigong. For example a champion weightlifter is superstrong, yet he can still hurt his back while carrying a piano
1
MultiQuote
Reply
#5   fatguyslim 

Tao Addict

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:43
Joined:07-June 11
Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:34 AM
AstralProjectee, on 07 July 2011 - 12:41 AM, said:
Can the taosit or meditation faiths heal you? Like faith healing with some meditation. I'm not talking about healing as in herbs and medicine. I'm talking about faith healing. Asking Wu Chi, Jesus or who ever is in the higher power to heal me. As I understand you have to believe in your heart. People are actually doing this in Matrix Energetics.

I know Jesus can heal BTW.

Do the Taoist recognize this kind of healing.
Thanks.


I think this is a very good question... I have to ask though when you say heal do you mean healing the physical body or healing the mind? I have a story from Chuang-tzu which I would like to share


In the state of Lu a certain man whose feet had been chopped off repeatedly came to see Confucius.
Confucius said to him, “You got into trouble like this because you were not prudent before. What can you do about it from now on?”
The footless one replied, “I just didn’t know what I should do and used my body carelessly; that is how I lost my foot. The reason I am coming here now is that I still have something more valuable than a foot, and therefore I’m trying to keep it intact.
“Heavens covers all, earth bears all. I considered you like heaven and earth; how could I have known you’d still be like this?”
Confucius said, “I am being narrow-minded. Why don’t you come in and talk about what you’ve learned?”
But the footless one left.
Confucius said to his disciple, “You should work diligently on this. That was a man who had his foot chopped off, yet still strives to learn in order to compensate for the faults in his previous actions. How much more will someone who would keep virtue intact!”
The footless one said to Lao Tan, “Confucius has not reached human completeness; otherwise why could he come to study from you so attentively? He even seeks fame, which is a deceptive illusion, not knowing that completed people consider it fetter to them.”
Lao Tan said, “Why not get him to consider death and life one thread, get him to consider approval and disapproval one continuity, thus freeing him from his fetters?”
The footless one said, “Heaven is punishing him; how can he be released?”

So yes I believe faith can heal but I am in it to heal the mind rather than body. I haven't met anyone who can practice Tao without being too concerned about the well being of the physical body (every alchemical text says that it comes naturally without forcing it once you form the spiritual embryo). It is like how Liu I-Ming says...

Laozi (Lao-tzu) said, "The reason I have a great affliction is that I have a body. Had I no body, where would affliction come from?" So we know that this body is our great affliction. If we can escape this affliction, then that which is unafflicted will remain. Only that which is unafflicted is the true self.

Getting rid of affliction requires first that we recognise the true self. Only when we recognise the true self do we realise that the body is the other. The other and self are unconnected to one another. Getting rid of the other by means of the self is quite simple, and requires no expenditure of effort."
0
MultiQuote
Reply
#6   devoid 

Tao Bum!

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:349
Joined:17-January 10
Gender:Male
Posted 07 July 2011 - 06:48 AM
IMO Taoism is a matter of philosophy rather than one of faith.

Sure, by practicing it one gains experience and insights, and this in turn helps shape ones opinions.

Yet, this has very little to do with faith as in organized religion.

(unless, of course, for those who treat Taoism as a religion rather than as a methoed of observing, questioning and drawing conclusions on the Way).
http://www.justalittleqi.com/
0
MultiQuote
Reply
#7   fatguyslim 

Tao Addict

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:43
Joined:07-June 11
Posted 07 July 2011 - 07:06 AM
devoid, on 07 July 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:
IMO Taoism is a matter of philosophy rather than one of faith.

Sure, by practicing it one gains experience and insights, and this in turn helps shape ones opinions.

Yet, this has very little to do with faith as in organized religion.

(unless, of course, for those who treat Taoism as a religion rather than as a methoed of observing, questioning and drawing conclusions on the Way).


I agree the Faith in this sense is nothing to do with the religion. I have some more Chuang-tzu from the outer chapters that I would like to share...

Chuang Tzu told the story
of the autumn floods:

The autumn floods had come.
Thousands of wild torrents
poured furiously into the
Yellow River.
It surged and flooded its banks until,
looking across,
you could not tell an ox from a horse
on the other side.

Then the River God laughed,
delighted to think
that all the beauty in the world
had fallen into his keeping.

So downhill he swung,
untill he came to the ocean.
There he looked out over the waves
towards the empty horizon in the east,
and his face fell.

Gazing out at the far horizon,
he came to his senses
and murmured to the Ocean God:
“Well, proverb is right:
‘He who has got himself a
hundred ideas,
he thinks he knows more than anybody else.’
Such a one am I.
Only now do I see
what they mean by expanse!”

The Ocean God replied,
“Can you talk about the sea to a frog in a well?
Can you talk about ice to a dragonfly?
And can you talk about the Way of life
to a doctor of philosophy?”

The thing is Taoism is viewed either as religion or as philosophy or sometimes both. But when it comes to true practice neither one of them can explain how it can be done in the true way... Having the faith that one can achieve Tao even after falling into sidetracks thousands of times, is what matters the most.
0
MultiQuote
Reply
#8   tumoessence 

Tao Bum!

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:229
Joined:18-November 04
Location:sacramento area
Interests:tai chi alchemy bardon
Posted 07 July 2011 - 08:06 AM
Maybe its the faith itself that heals not what you have faith in. Like in the the scientific trials where they give people sugar pills in a blind study and find people responding and they discount it saying its "just" placebo. But the whole placebo effect points to the power of mind and feeling working together and should be big news in itself. But it just gets marginalized.
0
MultiQuote
Reply
#9   -K- 

I can change my name!

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:3,143
Joined:07-April 08
Gender:Female
Location:4th dimension
Interests:Whatever works
Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:11 PM
"do you mean healing the physical body or healing the mind? "

Well, I think that's the point where "faith" crosses over both body and mind. If you have further experience of it 'working' then I guess that might clear things up for you (or maybe confound you further, depending;-))

Weird that lack of experiences doesn't seem to have the same effect...Anyway, I digress

And counter to that, mind can scr*w up body...

Beware, amateur practitioner speaking :-) IME/IMO the whole "energy cycle" of 'jing to qi to shen' in a human microcosm implies you can also return 'shen to qi to jing' - as the "way of Tao is return" - I read that here Except I've never had it return to a previous state (not exactly the same one!) It's an open system IME/IMO. I'm kind of rambling and not an authority on Taoism so I apologise for giving you just my experience.

So, anyway, whether you consider each of body/mind/spirit to be a 'form' of the other (I have a neat condensed milk analogy about that that no-one here listens to ;-)) or that you allow (through experience) that each can and does influence the other in very subtle ways (BTW if you try qi-gong or just breath exercises you will figure that stuff out very fast :-)) I reckon it's fair enough to have them (jing, qi, shen) all influence each other enough to give out some broad rules of thumb. Add to that that, some of them (jing,qi, shen) are super tweaked, very fine, look at acupuncture and what Ya Mu and co do :-)) And don't forget placebo :-) I think westerners tend to dismiss that one, but it's very interesting :-) IME/IMO

Of course, if you prefer, then you can just opt to get zapped and not get into the complexity :-)
- "Chi is free!"
- "Don't give your chi to your practice"

Both unknown, if you know where these come from, let me know!

"If your beliefs affect the way that you conduct your life and the way you treat other people- they are meaningful;" - Xakari

"Anyway most of the tantric deities like Heruka are straight out of India, as NWA is straight out of Compton." - Alwayson
0
MultiQuote
Reply
#10   Non 

Tao Bum!

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:1,469
Joined:24-September 09
Gender:Male
Posted 07 July 2011 - 06:04 PM
well, Stigweard gave me a very good invocation called the Golden Light invocation of the QUanzhen school, and it's very good. Seems like a prayer now that I actually have recently come to realize it's depth of meaning.

Also, I think you have to do the Taoist practices with some bit of faith otherwise it wouldn't work as well.

But yea there are different schools which focus on different goals. Some focus on ceremony, others on breathing methods, others on alchemy, etc.
This post has been edited by Non: 07 July 2011 - 06:07 PM
0
MultiQuote
Reply
#11   -K- 

I can change my name!

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:3,143
Joined:07-April 08
Gender:Female
Location:4th dimension
Interests:Whatever works
Posted 07 July 2011 - 06:15 PM
Non, on 07 July 2011 - 07:04 PM, said:
well, Stigweard gave me a very good invocation called the Golden Light invocation of the QUanzhen school, and it's very good. Seems like a prayer now that I actually have recently come to realize it's depth of meaning.

Also, I think you have to do the Taoist practices with some bit of faith otherwise it wouldn't work as well.

But yea there are different schools which focus on different goals. Some focus on ceremony, others on breathing methods, others on alchemy, etc.


"Also, I think you have to do the Taoist practices with some bit of faith otherwise it wouldn't work as well."

I did/do most of the ones I learned "faithless" - only because my "faith" had been sorely tested by religious BS for such a long time. Being experimental (as in 'try and fail and try') about practices and perspectives gave/gives me a different idea/understanding of some of them (and some serious doubts about others, but anyway). Those ideas don't always line up with the explanations given by the masters but they do sometimes and do seem to "empirically" 'work' - which IMO/IME is far out :-)
- "Chi is free!"
- "Don't give your chi to your practice"

Both unknown, if you know where these come from, let me know!

"If your beliefs affect the way that you conduct your life and the way you treat other people- they are meaningful;" - Xakari

"Anyway most of the tantric deities like Heruka are straight out of India, as NWA is straight out of Compton." - Alwayson
0
MultiQuote
Reply
#12   zerostao 

ridge runner

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:1,095
Joined:31-December 09
Gender:Male
Location:enchanted ginseng forest
Interests:nature, metta-physics
Posted 08 July 2011 - 09:07 AM
jing to qi to shen and from shen to qi to jing, i left out shu , as i am not much of an expert either. but i am sure can go from shen back to jing
http://www.chemguide...uction.html#top

long ago i started experimenting by leaving "faith" out of the equation to try and come up with systems or process' that are "function" based.
whether i have faith or not, the function of the system works or not on its own accord.

there is the idea that faith alone can make something happen and much evidence to this.
it does not matter in what you have your faith in, it is having a faith that makes the thing work.

i also remind everyone we are now in 2011. in the 1990's scientists have already discovered ,
that by using the mind alone, one can heal oneself or one can make oneself ill.
one can lose weight by using the mind alone
one can build muscle by using mind alone etc etc (old news)

-K- i like the idea of try, fail, try again. i am big promoter of trial and error
rather than scientific method. and to clarify a bit. i do see usefulness in scientific method.
i am thinking about condensed milk and maybe will acquire some for further insight.

quantum philosophy like it or not , is the big deal real science of today, and has been the last century.
just for fun and a bit off topic , as i always like to plug my friend
http://creation.com/...m-leap-of-faith

and to get back on topic (almost)(on or about 30 months ago) when i was about to grasp for my last dying breath,
it was not any faith, or any desire to keep living,
i had no thoughts about tao or taoists or buddha, jesus or anything , i was accepting death
but a taoist spirit did come visit and heal me and put me on this path i am currently on.
i usually try to stay silent about this but it was/is a very real event.


edit>>
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=wOloP9A7CD8
This post has been edited by zerostao: 08 July 2011 - 10:46 AM
live like an immortal
i am a brother to dragons and a companion of owls
1
MultiQuote
Reply
#13   Rainbow_Vein 

Tao Bumette!

Group:The Tao Bums
Posts:2,147
Joined:02-January 09
Gender:Female
Interests:stillness-movement; laughing; meeting; listening; exchanging; simply BEing :-)
Posted 08 July 2011 - 09:48 AM
zerostao, on 08 July 2011 - 01:07 PM, said:
and to get back on topic (almost)(on or about 30 months ago) when i was about to grasp for my last dying breath,
it was not any faith, or any desire to keep living,
i had no thoughts about tao or taoists or buddha, jesus or anything , i was accepting death
but a taoist spirit did come visit and heal me and put me on this path i am currently on.




Refine the self and await the time... -- deci belle